Who? I don’t know about the second part of that, but the first part was started and the company started in April of 2020, started the email list in January of 2021. And we’re now four years or so later in our list is right at 200000 unique subscribers on our list. So it took about four years to get there is right at 200000.
This is pretty huge. OK, so now let’s talk about some strategies, I like to generally break things into groups and they think that email is building strategies could be distributed into two groups, the ones that you do on your website, like pop ups, yellow bars and stuff, and the one that you do outside your website. For example, I see a lot of people do joint webinars and then share subscribers. So let’s talk about the on on site list building strategies first. Like, I’m sure you can try pretty much all of them. So tell us about your experience. What are your most favorite ones? What are your least favorite ones and why?
Yeah, I mean, you were just talking to Noé recently, and the thing I learned from him early on, he was instrumental in me getting started. One of the things he taught me is do more of what works. So when it comes to on site optimization, which is a lot of what a lot of this building strategies are masqueraded as, is just optimizing your website for the work. And that’s obviously if you have traffic to your site, you’re more established and whatnot, that total of the first place to start. So what I do is go into Google Analytics and find what are your most popular pages like? What pages have traffic coming to them now? Because we can optimize a page that has three visitors coming to it all day long and is not really going to move the needle at all. So typically what you see is your top five most popular pages is your homepage and your top three or four blog posts that are typically Studwell. So those are your three or four most popular blog or popular pages. So what we do is have two different types of optimization techniques for those. Number one, for the home page is something called an upside down home page. So you go to the dofor dot com or Microsoft dot com or Golan’s. Right, or dot com. There will be three examples of that and see examples of it. You can also just Google upsidedown homepage. And there’s a guest post I wrote on the Lepidus blog you can read to get a full detailed version of some templates and whatnot. But basically the concept is on a typical homepage, you come to someone’s home page and there’s just stuff everywhere. There’s category bars and there’s social icons. And there’s Sunit for the free trial. And here’s all our features. It’s like the first time. This is the first time you’ve ever talked on a video before, 10, like the first time we ever had a conversation. I try to tell you my entire life story, like, that’s really awkward. If the first time someone comes to your site, you try to just tell them everything about you. So what we’ve done with upsidedown homepage is just flip that upside down and we put all of your links and all the navigation and all the social stuff at the bottom of the page. But give people a single clear call to action at the top and tell them a story that introduces you, but mostly tells them how you can help them and give them an opt in on that homepage. They can do they can download in order to join your email list. So you can see some examples of that. But just by taking because what typically you see on pages, you’ll have all the stuff at the top. These are there’s 50 call to actions at the top of the page was all those different things I can do. And then a blog post or some like call to action at the bottom. So just flip that upside down and make the first interaction with you really fluid and really easy with a single clear thing to do if you can’t go to your home page and in less than five seconds. No, the single clear thing you want someone to do, you’re losing Convergys, you’re losing Liesje, you could potentially sell to. Second thing is go into your most popular blog post and creating content upgrades, which is just a lead magnet for that specific post. So instead of having your universal lead magnet, you have all over the site on the most visited blog post. If you’re ranking really have for some keyword and you don’t have a lead menu specifically made for that, go and make one. Put it in the side of the blog post, in the intro and at the end. And if you won’t put a time or a pop up on that page that shows before someone goes to leave and introduces that lead magnitude, then we’ve seen those two things alone. We’re working with people. Those are the first things we do on any site that gets over just a few thousand visits on the site per month. And that that’ll take the on site conversion from one to two percent to eight to 10 percent. We’ve seen regularly what people.
Yeah, this is great. I totally support these two strategies. Do think you can apply the upside down home page to, for example, company books? I know it works perfectly for kind of personal blogs, for one Lalami blogs. But what about company blogs, for example, for us today, Trevor’s blog and the same other question about, OK, let me ask another question later. What about the upside down home page for companies
pulling up your website now, you’ll do a pretty good job. So let’s just start with this company individual. There’s no difference your marketing from a person to another person. So whether you’re marketing B2B or B2C, you’re trying to get individuals to do an action. So in that regard, it’s no different whether you’re Brian Dean selling a course with a one man army or you’re selling a software with an entire company. At the end of the day, what you want is CEO to sign up for your to or sign up for your course. This is the call. The same at the end of the day. Doesn’t matter whether you’re brown or whether your address. So you’ll do a pretty good job. I’m just looking at the site right now above the fold. Call to action, start seven day trial for seven dollars. That’s not going to optimize for email conversions. You’re optimizing for sign ups, right? You’re trying to get a cell right off the bat at the top of the page. So that’s not terrible. But you’re not going to you would have more email sign ups if you could then convert into a trial if you went with an email. Approach, and that would be something you could test or maybe you guys have already tested after that one, I’m scrolling down the page. The next thing I see is the tools you get with a traps, a little sample size, a bunch of numbers bragging on the tool. And how powerful is a homepage?
Click on the blog link at the top.
No, I’m not talking about blog. I’m talking about the home page.
OK, OK, so you’re talking about the
OK, the number one traffic page on your site I bet is a dotcom. Everyone thinks obviously people link internally to pages as well. But almost every site you go to, unless you have an area where it can, it can vary a little bit. If you get some really good like Jeff Goines, for instance, he’s a friend of mine that he’s a single single guy kind of blog. But if you go to like how to write a book, he writes number one for that. So obviously that gets more traffic than any other page. But number two is his home page. So for you guys, it’s going to be similar. Maybe it’s three or four, but the home page itself is really important to optimize. So it doesn’t matter whether there’s a company that gets into some nuance of design that you can just have a designer design end up in a way that fits Shell’s design criteria. But what you want to do is have someone who’s never heard of a dress before, someone that’s never heard of you before, has come to the site for the first time. They’re not clicking the orange button and that this is not happening. A return person might someone that’s heard of you before has been in the industry some, but a brand new person, they’re not clicking the button. They’re just not they’re not going to pay you seven dollars the first time they’ve ever heard of you. But they will give you their email address in exchange for a piece of information that will help them. And then you can indoctrinate them into that. So it could be worth using something like. Right message to know whether it’s someone who’s first time or they’ve been there multiple times and adjust that action accordingly.
Uh huh, yeah. That makes a lot of sense about content upgrades. I’m actually a big advocate of the strategy. I used to have a plugin that did content upgrades for WordPress blogs. But the general concern I have about it, and this is a tricky question that I was also asking to in our interview, is that basically you offer people a lead magnet the way it is like 100 percent relevant to the article that they landed on and that they’re reading. So there’s a high chance that they will grab it. I know a lot of people for whom the conversions of content upgrades go like through the roof, but like, how do keep people engaged from there? Because they got the freebie. They got what they wanted. They don’t really expect any more emails from you.
Well, first of all, if they don’t expect any more emails from you, you’re doing the content upgrade wrong. So one of the things you give them when they download the upgrade is, hey, let’s just take an example. I’m just going to go to your blog quick and pick out a recent post on how to find fix and how to find and fix broken links to reclaim valuable link juice as opposed to I posted the other day. So if you’re going to now, I wouldn’t recommend creating the content upgrade when you launch the post, when you see it’s getting traffic and starting to rent and then go back and create one, that’s a better way to do it because the only people signing up for it when you first launch it with the people already on your list, which can be a content strategy, but if you’re doing it just to collect new email subscribers, wait to, you know, what you’re thinking and then go back and create it. So let’s just say that post is ranking. If you were going to create a lead magnet, maybe you’d create a 30 minute tutorial where Tim actually goes over the site and finds goes over someone else’s site and finds broken links. That’s something I know because I’ve been through multiple courses on SEO. We’re not great at SEO and I always hear people write these posts and tell me about it, but no one ever does it and lets me watch it. And it’s a pain in the butt to do broken link building because you have to find them and that’s like a needle in a haystack. So I know for that topic, that’s a point of mine. If I were to read that post and it said, hey, download a 30 minute tutorial of me actually going out and finding three broken links, you can see how I do it. It’s just ugly. It’s not edited. You just watch me do it. I would watch the entire thing. And if also in that popup or an Internet email address, you say, and also we’re going to send you tips on how to continue your broken link building and build an entire strategy every week. So in your email below and you get both of those things. So you package your newsletter along with the downloadable as the thing they’re signing up for. If they don’t know you’re signing up for the newsletter, then you’re tricking them into signing up for your newsletter. When we do it, we do both. They get the downloadable and they get weekly tips on how to continue doing the thing they’re often in for. So it’s all about just framing it for the person. Correct. And and setting their expectations. The second part of that would be what do you do to keep people engaged? That’s a that’s a list question. In general, it’s not specific to content upgrades.
If people will get it later. Real quick. Yeah, I love the tip that you should actually set an expectation that people are signing up for your email list and that that they’re about to get updates. So basically you’re using content them great as the first upgrade, the first cool thing that you send them. And from there you continue, right?
Yeah, it’s not just telling them, but here’s the deal. Every week we’re spending twenty, thirty, forty hours writing really good content. That’s that’s good stuff. Like it’s a bonus. It’s a bit like we look at our newsletter as a product that’s free. It’s a premium product. It’s not even just a free product. Right. So it’s like a thousand dollar course or a ninety nine dollars a month atrip software service or whatever the process, but this is free. So this is a product you’re actually getting. So I think positioning it as that to people through your copy is really important. This isn’t just some newsletter girl. This is the exclusive newsletter we share behind the scenes stuff of what we’re doing and what’s working. You get that. Plus you get a 30 minute tutorial video. Do you want in on that? Like, it’s just not just telling them, but positioning it correctly to them where they want to be on it. After reading that one, send us a copy.
I love that advice. Totally lower than like you frame it. Super awesome. OK, so let’s let’s get to the off side. Tell us what you tried and what you enjoyed and what you didn’t enjoy.
So the number one thing we like to do for all side is partnerships and partnerships can look at a lot of different ways. A lot of people use Facebook ads a lot. That hasn’t been something that’s been successful for us. We’ve we’ve been trying for three years to get Facebook ads to work and we’ve had moderate success and other people, other people do great with it. But the thing that’s worked well for us and that’s all I can speak to, is what’s well worked well for us and consistently for clients of ours, our partnerships. So there’s several different type of partnerships. You mentioned partner webinars. We found that to be really effective in almost every industry, especially software, because they’re very underused in the software industry. They’re used a ton in the information marketing world, but many other industries, they’re not at all. So when you think about this, this is another lesson Noah taught me. I’m just going to like reverb, just reiterate everything. No, totally. But number one and try to market a product is have a really good product like focus on that first. Second, when you go to try to market that product, find audiences, find people who have audiences of your potential customer and give them a reason to talk about you. So what is the reason I could get like with Atrius audience be relet to be potential customers? Me, absolutely. Would my audience be potential customers for you? Absolutely. So if it’s me and I’m thinking, all right, I want to grow, my list has got a big audience, a super popular blog. How can I get them to tell their audience about me? Because, like, let’s just dream for a minute. Let’s say you guys tomorrow send an email with a link to set, click this link and join Brownes newsletter. It’s amazing. I would get two, two, three, four, five thousand subscribers from that. Now, can I get you all to send that email? Probably not, but how can I get you out to do something that promoted me in order for me to grow my list and get more leads so that I could sell people. So one way is by doing a partner webinar like HTML and just think about a partner webinar is you just teaching someone else’s audience. So obviously you guys are watching this video right now, are interested in this building. I talk about list building. How about me? And I have a webinar about Lisbon or how about this? How about I do an interview with Tim in a free course that he’s releasing and talk about Lisbet, which is what we’re doing right now. So we’ll pick up two or three hundred subscribers from this interview and that was intentional. I’m going to give a few call to actions throughout this. It’ll be natural that will lead you back to my stuff so that you can sign up for our newsletter and be on our list and be a lead for us. So partner webinars are a good way to do that. Another partnership type that’s really popular. Our guest post that is a partnership, your partner with someone else to write on their site. I look at because I come from Legion Lisburn World, not SeaWorld. I look at guest person, if done correctly, as a great list building event that can then be optimized for you if you do that correctly with the strategic link, placing a lot of people to do guest posting come from the world of I want to write a guest post on a blog so I can get a link the points back to a post. I might just do both because if you do a guest post correctly, if you use something called the expanded guest post, which just Google expanded guest post will be a blog post. It comes up on our site. You can read about it. You actually create a content upgrade in that post. So let’s just paint a scenario real quick, Tim. You invite me to the blog to write a post about Lisboa and you guys want to write for list building. Incredibly competitive keyword. You invite someone in to write on that topic. I published the post on your site. I’ll be back maybe to an article on my site somewhere. I create a content upgrade on your site. This like, hey, come and join this one hour and watch this one. Our master class, me and Tim did just in our email to get it. And then it’s a partnership is two ways. It has a benefit, both of us. So I actually email my list about that post. So I email two hundred thousand people about the post, send them back to address. They pick up a couple on our sign ups for it. They include my content upgrade on their post. So I pick up four or five hundred subscribers from it and then long term they’ll eventually write for that keyword. So there’ll be a partner. A partnership has to be beneficial on both sides. So guest post are a great way. Partner webinars are another way. One thing that’s not used a ton is a lead magnet swap. This is something we found to be very effective in a lead magnis swap is win like this is take the guest post example. Instead of writing a guest post for refs, what if they handed us one of their most popular lead magnets? Maybe one elderly man is a free trial, maybe typically do a 30 day free trial. I don’t know if you do a trial, not just as an example, but let’s say you decided to give us a 90 day free trial. And we took one of our premium products and we have an entry level course. I’m listed in this thread and we gave that to your audience and we both emailed each others a list about it if we promoted that well to our list and just sent one. Two emails to our list, we would both pick up hundreds and hundreds of customers from that. So taking one of your most popular Liebman’s or maybe even an entry level product, turning it free and exchanging it with someone that has an audience that’s relative to you. The whole game of partnerships is fine. People who have audiences that you want to get in front of and give them a reason to talk about you, you have to keep the partners best interest in play. So another a variation we’ve done of this, our partner tools, there’s something that’s much more advanced. You need a you need an engineering team to be able to do it. But we create every month we create a new free tool and get a partner to sponsor that and then launch the tool. So as an example, we created a tool called Listicle. If you’re interested in building your list or want to make sure your list is being helped, that you go to Lisco dot com to sign up for it is free forever. We partnered up with Convert Keit to build the tool and launch the tool with conversion. And we’ve had the number right of the second. We’ve had about twelve thousand people sign up for it in the first forty five days of the tool. So we built the tool. We partnered with another company, they put their name on it. We share the leads and we both just promote the crap out of it. We promote it in a big event in the first 30 days and we we put it in all of our popular blog posts and emails, sequences and onboarding sequences and whatnot. And we get a thousand or so new subscribers every month from that. So we create we’ve created, I think, seven different tools that we partner with people on, and we do that every month. So that’s our that’s the partnership we’re completely focused on. We don’t do any other type of partnerships right now. It’s just partner tools because I work really well. It’s actually kind of hard to do and there’s not a lot of competition on them. So I would encourage you to experiment with a few things. I’ve given you four ideas. Your tools will be the most difficult lead. Magnet swap would be one of the easier ones. Guest post and partner webinars will be for partnership strategy, and there’s lots of other variations as well. That’s something for us we have found to be cheap to almost free to do extremely effective. You get an immediate result from it and it’s something you can do over and over again. Last example I’ll leave you with is convert. Get our partner with Lisco, convert kit in the suit. I think it’s twenty sixteen. Nathan started the year right around. I think it was like ten to twenty thousand dollars. Emrah over the course of twenty sixteen they did one hundred and forty two partner webinars. One hundred and forty two. That’s one basically every other day or a little faster than that I guess. Or no. Yeah I won’t ever ever ever. Two days. The three days I did a partner webinar and then went from ten thousand other M ah to now that just passed one million dollars a month or so, one million dollars, a recurring revenue every month. And what they did to get there was a partner webinar. One hundred and forty two partner webinars in one year. The guy that led that was Darrell Lesterville and just did it over and over and over and over and over again. They made a system out of it and it kept doing what works. So I would encourage you to experiment with a couple of partnerships found the one that works for you and just keep doing it.
Oh, one hundred webinars. Let me just one follow up question on that, because I think I tried to offer like a few people that have some Odell’s to do a webinar about Trev’s and they think I was turned down. So probably I was doing something wrong and probably that something wrong was about being a win win for everyone. So like, for example, if I do a webinar about the Trev’s for your list, what would make you want to do it? Like, what’s your win there?
Well, one thing I’ll say off the bat, a lot of software companies really suck at partnerships. They’re at someone named names at a software company come to me and say that would give me a free year of their software, the premium software, to do a partner webinar and promote it with their audience. But I’ll need to get fifteen hundred people to register for it. And I started doing the math and that was six hundred dollars. Six hundred dollars for the full year of the program. Like, like why would I ever do that. That makes no sense at all. Why don’t I just do a webinar to my own list for my own product and make 20 grand versus making six and eight bucks promotora like a little. That just makes no sense at all. So I would look at the first thing I do for you, Tim. This is one thing I would encourage anyone. The first time they’re doing something is go talk to someone who’s done that before. So I would say go talk to Daryle, go talk to Nathan and tell him about partner webinars for software companies. Let me step number one and always do that. Try to find a coach. That is the ultimate fast forward button on any business is fun. Someone who’s done it pay the money or get really close to them. So they’ll tell you, give you advice on how to do it. That just speeds up everything. So the number one number two would be, yeah, you have to make it a win for them. So like your perfect partner is branding its CEO or Matthew Babi or somebody like Tommy grew up with any of these CEO guys that are teaching the InfoSpace, probably other software companies as well. But those guys are prom because they don’t have the competing product at all, but they have like your perfect audience. So the question is how you how you pitch to me is how you pitch to Brian Cypress. To Brian is what does Brian want? First of all, I would say partner webinars is one of the bigger ask that you can make of someone. So if the first time you ever talk to someone, you’re asking them for something like you’ve gone wrong. So you have to have an existing relationship with someone to do, especially in an advanced partnership. So I look at actually rewind all the way to the beginning of the partnership conversation. I would make a list of 100 people. So we talked about what audiences do you want to get in front of? Like, give me a reason to talk about you first thing to start with. Who are hundred people going to work with? Like in a dream world, you could you could wave your magic wand. You could have one hundred people doing webinars or guest post or whatever variation in partnership you want to do. Who would they be? Do those people be spend three hours writing them down is probably you’re going to get through that number thirty or forty pretty easily. By the time you get to number sixty, you’re like really scratching your head. But but spend the time to figure out who they are and then divide that. Listen to three sections, people, you know. So who are people you’ve had a conversation with, like at least webcam or in person, ideally in person. Who have you talked to before? Who do you kind of know? So I put us probably in the Konono category, like we’ve talked via email. Like this probably brings our relationship a little further, but we’d probably still be in the candidate category. And then people you don’t know, people you kind of know, but maybe you never talked to before, you just kind of followed from a distance. And for the love, just throw out the first two sections, get rid of the don’t know people, get rid of the count of no people and just focus on the people. You know, for me, I have about nine close friend out of five really close friends in this industry like that kind of do similar stuff to me. I’m going blurry. You’re alone. So any time I go to pitch something like like the little tool we created, like I’ve known Nathan, he slept at my house before. So like I know him, we text probably once a month or every other week or something to kind of keep in touch with each other. A few other friends that are in the same boat, like when I’m going to do a partnership, I start with them. They’re just easy. So I start with people I know and have a really close relationship with that lets you kind of figure out your pitch a little bit and figure out what works, because you’re not going to they’re not going to really say no to you. If you just make it be a half way, they’ll do it because they like you. And that’s what you want to start with. Start with that easy, low hanging fruit for people that are maybe in a little earlier on or don’t have quite the brand recognition of you guys tend to start with people that are in the same demographic of you. So if you have five hundred subscribers on your list, don’t pick someone with one hundred thousand subscribers unless you know them well. Stick with people that are at your level or maybe one rung above you. If you don’t have anyone you know at all, start with people. You kind of maybe you’re in a course or someone or maybe you’re in the drip community for the ESP that you have. You’re like you kind of see them around a little bit, but you never really talked to them before, find somebody that’s in that same category. So first, start with people you know, and make it be a win for them and then have a long term plan for the people you kind of know and people that you don’t know at all. So people that don’t know it all literally start by sharing a success I’ve had from using their product. So for you guessed it, if I were trying to work on, like to form a tool partnership with you guys, I kind of no use. I probably start with talking with you to start a conversation. If we haven’t talked in a year and I’d probably share some when I’ve had one or two, I’m a subscriber of attributes and I found this really cool technique recently that I’m sure every CEO here knows that I’ve never known and it’s kind of stumbled upon. I would just start by sharing that with you and what it’s done for me. Like I found every CEO or this watching is going to laugh at me. But I found when I run my site through Atrius and I just go, I think it’s called Best Buy Links on the left sidebar like little. This is like every CEO or should be pitching because every site I’ve ever been to outside of one has massive issues with this. There are no one that has the most links ranks for nothing like Gujrat, go to the biggest site, you know, and go plug their thing in and look for Best Buy links. Like I found one mention his name because we’re friends with Michael Hyatt. They have like 2500 links to Michael Dotcom slash platform, I think it is. And some of them, in fact, I’m going to address, but in that ballpark. Twenty five hundred links to that that page. Everybody knows how hard it is. I think it’s twenty five hundred unique domains. I could be wrong and that is a lot. And they write for nothing. So literally if you’re trying to optimize that site you could write new content. You don’t need to build links. You don’t even need to write stuff. You just need to go find a post. You have four platform probably, I’m guessing three one redirect or just take that information and copy and paste it and put it on the platform page and you will rank your platform pretty quickly as long as it’s halfway related content. We started doing that on our site. Well, I man, we’re going to stop writing new blog posts. Let’s just go back and we’ll get we got post with hundreds of links to it, the rent for nothing. So let’s go back and just make those rent. So if I were trying to bid you I want to share that. But Tim, do like I use yours, too. I think this is like the best feature in the entire tool for established websites because none of them know what they’re most linked to. Pages are. And almost none of the pages were ranked for stuff like this. Like the easiest thing to ever do. As you know, I would start with just sharing and then start the conversation. You’re going to ask what I’m up to. I’m going to ask what you’re up to. And then through that, I’ll share in some natural form like we just did, that we’re doing two partnerships. And I found with that kind of approach a partnership. People usually just ask, I got a buddy ask to do so. And what they’re doing is like, man, I’d love to do one of those with you. Cool. Let’s go do it for a partner webinar. You have to know what the win is for your partner. So for Brian, for instance, like money, probably not going to be the pitch for him like it probably isn’t. But he but what he does do is he does every year. Brian, I’m talking about Brian back and think of dot com. Anybody that’s listening doesn’t know. I’m talking about what Brian does once a year. He does this exhaustive. It’s amazing does this. But there’s isn’t as exhaustive it Brian. He does like the analyzes. I think it last year was a million or ten million pages and has the ranking factor study on it. Mazid One would like ten thousand branded one with a million I think last year maybe it went to 10 million. I could be wrong on that. But I know it teams up with the impression that I don’t know if he teams up with you on that, though.
Teams us with with us as well. Right. Good.
So like I would I would go and be like, how can we give you more data? How can we make your stuff back? That’s what he wants. He wants a really good content. How can we give you could we give every customer that buys your course a year of our product or something? I would find a way to find some unique way to give Ron what he wants, which is he wants more customers. But that is the number one driver. And that’s going to be that’s going to come out of conversations with him. You have to talk to humans and have conversations with them. Another just category first, the more established business is all your customers like people in the people, you know, category. You might not know their names, but they know you and they pay you one hundred a 200 to 300 dollars a month for your service. Like who are your existing customers? Go talk to him. Be like, hey, you use tariffs. You have an audience that’s that’s related to ours. We’d love to team up into a partnership with you. We’ll give you money and we’ll give you free press for life. If you hit certain benchmarks or something like the total wins for them, you get a bunch of new customers. So it comes down to have conversations with people, figure out what they want and give them that.
A lot of great advice. I’m glad they don’t have to take those because we are recording this interview you even shared so deep keeping there in a video about Liz building. So it’s all I would I would want to ask you, like twenty more questions on the topic. Yes, he did topic, but like, I’m running out of time. So we have one last question to cover. And this is the question that we started discussing before about keeping your list engaged, because you did the upside down home page, you did the content upgrades, you swab the the audience, you swab the lid magnet’s you did all that stuff. Like how the again, the issue is that you’re using all these different methods to put people on your list. Some downloaded your freebies, some saw your like upside down welcome page. Some came from a joint webinar with someone. Ah. How do you like make your list engaged while not posting a lot of your time there? Because like if you start segmenting every like person who came like from it can take ages, like what is the advice here.
So think about the entire I guess the almost the entirety of your business, like your customer acquisition channels in three phases you attract leads. That’s what we’ve been talking about this business with this entire sections about. Then you have to teach and build a relationship with them. You’re never going to get I won’t say never because this does happen, but the conversion percentages are really low. If a random dude walks up off the street and says, hey, what do you do? It’s like, oh, I help people get more customers. OK, cool, have a good day. I like it very rarely goes from I just met you for the first time ever. I’m going to give you seven dollars a month, which is what’s on your homepage. It’s like that practically never happens. The first visit. So first you have to attract them and you have to. Capture them, as at least you can actually have a conversation with them, because someone comes to your side, meet you in person, whatever, and you don’t have a way to talk to him anymore. They’re not coming back. They’re going to forget you exist. You are the center of your world in your businesses like you think about it all day. I think about it when we’re talking. And then I kind of forget you exist. And then randomly, I remember you like maybe once a month, maybe if you’re lucky, but everybody else encounters you, then leave. So you have to track them and capture them second. Then you have to do is teach them and primarily build a relationship with them. That’s what you’ll do really well with on your blog, is you build a relationship by teaching and then the third piece is monetizing. Then you can actually make money from someone. Once you’ve attracted them, you have a relationship with them. You can solve a problem for them. They’re obviously on your list. They’re warning that problem solved or getting more traffic via SEO and now you can actually monetize them. So what we’re talking about specifically is how do you teach and build a relationship with someone? So just in life, how do you do it? Like, I have friends that I keep up with, that friends that that I don’t keep up with. I have a friend, Amy Collins. She was the one of the groomsmen in my wedding. She was a friend I grew up with for a long time. I was standing on my side in our wedding or whatever. And like, I wish I wish our relationship was still as strong as it was. But it is not like I moved away within seven hours away. But I texted her probably once a month. If I wanted that relationship to be stronger, you know what I would do? I would text her more often. I’d pick up the phone and talk to her. So how do you build a relationship with anyone? How do you how do you have a better marriage? You talk to your wife more, you talk to your husband more, you share more stuff like if you want your relationship with anyone to go away, just stop talking to him. It’ll go away. And then you’ll see him a year from now and you try to pick up. But it will never be the same if you don’t talk to them. Like we have some friends who went to church with forever and they moved away and like they were one of our closest friends for the last eight years. And their relationships just over I mean, not completely over, but it’s never going to be like it was. We’re not going to see each other two or three times a week. We just won’t I guess it’s not happen anymore and you have to be fine with that. So on the business side, how do you build a relationship with someone is the question. They’ve joined the list. They’ve had enough interest. And this is where you have to be psychologically. Someone had enough interest to say, please email me more. Think about that. Who wants more email? No one. But this person, at least for that one point in time, wanted you to email them so they have a lot of interest in what you’re doing now. What you have to do is just continue to build the relationship with them by teaching them and by helping them. So what we do, we used to do what most people do, which is we would just write kind of one off blog post, so we’d publish every week. We’d pick whatever topic, honestly, whatever topic I was interested in. I would write about it and I would publish it. And there was not a lot of rhyme or reason to it. But if it sounded cool and it sounded topical, I just wrote and published it. And I think there’s a lot of merit in that at different stages of business. However, what we do now is and you asked about this in our prep questions, we tell a story, we don’t tell our story. No one cares about your story. What people care about is their story. They care about themself, what the problem is and how you can fix it and make their life better. That’s what they care about. So what we do is we divide up. We used to do every month. Now we do two months at a time. So eight weeks we we do a series and we’ll pick a topic that people are interested in right now for this month of this being filmed. We’re doing emails are now we’re doing sales funnels. So we’re picking the end of the track to monetize. We’re doing the M.S. right now. We usually pick one of the topics, one of those big topics and then pick one sub topic of that and just talk about that for eight weeks. So we have like week one. We always do this week, too. We always do this. And all the way through week eight, we have a specific plan where we produce content for those people. And the only thing that goes up publicly on the blog for that is week eight. We publish a blog post, but the other seven weeks is all private stuff on the email list. You only get it different. The email list and we launch a tool in that section. We write a blog post about it. We do some e-mail series and we’ll have a challenge. So if, like for this month, I think it’s week six, we do our lab challenges and our lab challenge is like, hey, we’ve been talking about sales funnels for the last month and I know everybody is liking that has been fun and maybe sick of the topic. Well, I’m not going to talk about anymore. We’re going to go to webinar tomorrow. We’re not gonna be selling anything. But on the webinar tomorrow, I’m going to make a cell phone up from scratch while you watch. So for tomorrow, I’m going to show you how to get those post on your site. They have a bunch of links to them. I’m going to show how to get them to actually Ranko for stuff because they are the easiest thing ever to rank. No one even tracks that. I’ve literally never seen a person talk about that, but I don’t camp out on the block, so someone probably has. But in my layman research, I’ve never seen one talk about that. So tomorrow we’re going to do that. I’m going to break down our own blog, tell you where we suck, where we have totally missed the boat and we’re going to fix it while you watch it. People love that. It’s awesome. And it’s great content to include in the blog post. It will publish in a few weeks. So we just have an eight week schedule each. Each week is kind of each week is templated out. We know the type of content to produce and we just write it. So we do a series on a topic that ends in an epic blog post. We can rent ratio and have traffic long term. So we just have a content plan that serves the list and teaches them to build a relationship with them. That’s where you get a focus on.